Not Just Book Club: PEN15

[0:00] I highly recommend watching the show if you're an adult it's it has very adult themes yes even though it's addressing Middle School experience it's rated MA for a reason.

[0:12] Music.

[0:20] This is not just book club.
Hearts in Taiwan today we're discussing the Hulu show pen15 and this is.

[0:31] This is this is something that like we can both talk about cuz I just.
I started I got Hulu like a few months ago and like I just started watching this show pen15 which if you write the name out.
Pen15,
and you put on your middle school brain you will understand why is this why this TV show is called pen15.

[1:00] Because it's like immature it's like perfect because it's about Middle School best friends these two girls Maya Ishii-Peters who's hapa she's half-japanese half-white.
And her best friend Anna Kone and this is the most awkward awkward experiences of growing up in Middle School.
So it brings me back so I was like Annie you have to watch the show.
You have to watch all this awkward stuff especially because we're like visit revisiting
our growing up experiences and this show is set in the 7th grade in the year 2000 which is not that far off from when we were in seventh grade so a lot of the throwback
references are all very familiar to us in our experiences during those formative years I'm so glad
that you recommended this show to me because I know I said this to you before but every single episode.
I am literally laughing out loud constantly and there has not been a show.

[2:15] That I've watched where that has happened on such a consistent basis to it's just and I think to your point it's that.

[2:25] That familiarity and the awkwardness and the the actresses I mean they are just they really lean into
the awkwardness of their characters and it just makes it even funnier that they are 30 something year olds.

[2:43] Playing 13 year olds that makes it even more hilarious and they're so good at it they like.
Get out of the posture and all the mannerisms of like what an insecure
preteen or early teenage adolescent girl would be doing and like saying to her friends and so awkward and so,
so perfectly captured so it's not just like it's not just that it's like fantastic show but,
also tackle some really tough parts of growing up and there's one episode episode six of season one that really just hit home of the Asian American Experience in those years,
it's called Posh because it was during the years when this girl band Spice Girls was really hot
Spice Girls was like five girls and everybody wanted to be Spice Girls and so like you and your friends would say okay let's be the Spice Girls,
This episode like centers around that Spice Girls premise as a way to bring out.
Maya Ishii-Peters' experience as an Asian-American where she already knows intrinsically that she should be ashamed of her Japanese heritage.

[4:11] Also learns explicitly that it's something that that can be used against her.

[4:18] You just watched it very shortly after I watched it what were your reactions to episode well I definitely didn't expect.
The epis I mean all of the episodes are very unexpected I don't sit there and I read the synopsis for hand I like to be surprised so I just thought oh Posh Spice Girls oh cool this will be a funny episode.
Not quite as much one of the things that.
Really stood out to me was Anna, Maya's white best friend.
Having this what she felt was this light bulb moment,
of realization being called a racist because there was this incident about the Spice Girls and they were telling my has brother and his friend about what they were doing and they called out,
what had happened as this incident as,
being racist so Anna goes and researches and she goes down this Rabbit Hole this 2000's version of the internet Rabbit Hole discover you know what is she searches things like
what is racism why does racism exist and this and that right and you see these wheels turning all of us and she feels like.

[5:32] Oh my gosh I have to do something about this this is wrong this is a thing that exists and.
I'm a part of the problem and I'm going to I'm going to solve all of the racism problems.

[5:44] And she goes to the principal and says racism is a problem we need to get rid of it and fix it and she,
conjures up this plan to help end racism at the school which ends up making,
everything worse the objective was to call attention to the fact that racism exists why it's so wrong,
and how it needs to be fixed she was trying to accomplish all these three things and one of the things that spoke to me about this entire thing from Anna's perspective is this whole concept of white guilt.

[6:25] Right and how when you combine this concept of white guilt with out.
Full context and education and knowledge and background and.
How to effectively make change it's like this perfect storm of making things worse.
And putting this additional burden on to the very people that.
You as the white person are trying to help or feel like you're trying to help.
And it just came out full force in Anna's character.
In this whole you know Middle School oh my God I have to fix it and here's exactly how I'm going to do it and then what happens she ends up hurting.

[7:14] The very person she was trying to help because she didn't go into it with the full context and knowing the best skills and techniques to.

[7:25] To make an effective change that was the first thing that stood out to me.

[7:30] The white guilt and just her misguided ideas of how she's going to fix it.
Are just so indicative of like how at the time people with good intentions go about things the wrong way.
We as a country have evolved so much since then of learning the difference between say performative justice versus allyship.

[8:02] These are things that like I feel like allyship is just
a term that I didn't even learn until a few years ago it's really hard for people when they see the wrong
to know what is the right way to go about it or doing something about it and being a positive force for healing I think that was very
revealing to me it's the very first thing I knew this episode was going to be good was,
in the beginning where Maya and Anna are super excited that three other girls are going to be coming over to visit to do this like Spice Girls video I think it's a class project.
And so they're like how we're going to impress these girls like how are we going to like get accepted and you know by these girls that are coming over to collaborate with us like we want them to be our friends so
they're like thinking of everything they need to impress the girls and it's like do you have a snacks and like yeah I have I have this bag of Cheetos and then.

[9:03] All throughout this scene where they're preparing
it's at Maya's house and Maya is going around and like hiding everything that that is a signal of her Japanese identity so she like covers up the shrine to her grandfather and she like.
Takes takes down any like wall decorations that have Japanese influence to them because she just kind of like instinctively knows that these classmates are not going to,
it's a liability they might exclude her or other her if she has anything foreign looking that is not part of their house that is a great foreshadowing for that scene when,
and in her admits guided attempt to quote unquote fix racism.
She hosts this staged thing where she posts this sign that says I am Japanese on Maya's Locker.
And does the whole skit that she had planned and that perfectly and at the end where it just makes it totally worse Maya says yeah I know I am Japanese thanks for letting you know your foreign language she said but she.
So it brings back that shame that now she's being called out in front of the entire School.

[10:24] And brought to everybody's attention in little a literal sign that says I am Japanese the very thing that to your point in the beginning of the episode she's been trying to minimize.

[10:38] So that she can not be called out.
For that literally and figuratively so I thought that was a really kind of interesting way to close that.

[10:51] And I just hurt a lot to see that.
Happened and then there's that part also in that particular scene that I thought was interesting to that.

[11:02] That showed part of why Maya.
Wanted to minimize that part of who she is is those boys run by.
And they say some they said some really racist stuff at which is one of the things that you know she's afraid of.
Yeah when people identify and really call that out she's gonna get be the butt end of jokes and racist comments and things like that.
And up until that point I forgotten actually about but I remember there is this.
Rhyme that I actually participated in I don't know if it was a coping mechanism for what I don't know if you remember this rhyme when we were in
like Middle School ish I believe it was Chinese Japanese Dirty Knees look at these and there were hand motions.

[11:55] That went along with that which included pulling your eyes back so yeah and really brought up that for me.
Yeah it was definitely like that when you're in that adolescent years like any surface that could be fodder for ridicule or for people to make fun of we all,
kind of viewed that view,
these things these physical visible things about ourselves as a liability and I think it started.
The learning of self-hate among Asian Americans because like these are.
Things that you can't change about yourself I mean now it's like the solution is like plastic surgery to like make your eyes bigger or whatever but it's,
I think the whole core of the episode is that like,
Maya is trying to assimilate she's trying to be viewed as the same as her peers but she never can be because they'll always see her as.
This other.

[13:00] Like she looks different when they're choosing the which spike who is which Spice Girl Maya wants to be Posh Spice which I think a lot of us didn't because she's like stylish and has the most together
but the one of the girls is like no you can't be Posh you have to be Scary Spice because
in the Spice Girls Scary Spice was the only person of color she was black so therefore
Maya even though she had pale skin this girls telling her your tan so you're Scary Spice because basically Maya was the only person of color in their group and Scary Spice the only person of color in the girl group so,
just purely based on physical attributes,
you are therefore the person of color in the Spice Girls even though Maya was what I could do the accent or like I went over because of trying to prove herself as being able to identify with this other Spice Girl
yeah and I think that's also a perfect
parallel and metaphor to the limitations literally and figuratively that a person of color has.

[14:07] And they're all right it's there's five people in this example you could be any one of five but really as a person of color you can only be one,
of the five so that's an automatic limitation that is placed on you yeah buyers by yourself or by other people the point is that is a limitation and that has ramifications.
All the way down the road professionally personally academically whatever I think that is a really good way of articulating that concept.

[14:41] Yeah it mean it just eyes to so many things like the other four girls they got to choose whoever they wanted based on like their personality or their preferences but it's kind of like jobs
right like when when you are in the person of privilege you can see all of the opportunities as available to you but when you're the minority.
You are like your reinforced all your life these are the paths that are valid for you like you only have a subset of the paths that you can choose from.

[15:15] Yeah I thought it was a brilliant episode to kind of.
Demonstrate how these things play out in middle school and in these social situations yeah and it's kind of like the start of the pain of being a minority
exactly okay yeah I think there's so many great parallels to adult life to your point showing the route of we're kind of all begins so.
Yeah I think it was.
A really good reminder to us every little thing matters at every stage of your life what a what a missed opportunity I think like if we could teach.
Kids how to be allies for each other in the face of bullying that whole experience could have been neutralized
if Anna had stood up for Maya and said no like she could be anybody that she wants well you don't have to put her in these racist characters in the video just because she has dark hair
the episode didn't didn't demonstrate that but it's like that's kind of the takeaway that I had a this could have gone so differently if she knew how to be an ally,
right and that's also similar for me the feeling that I got out of it was and I mean understandably it is.

[16:33] The TV show you get one episode how do you fit what you need to in there but yes thinking about it beyond that know the way that it kind of ended was their friendship is so strong.
Instead of beating up Anna likes Maya was being encouraged to do to put her in her place to show her how wrong she was.
There they use their strength of their friendship to just forget about it and move past it without a real conversation.
About.

[17:07] What could have should have happened and I think that speaks directly to your point about while it wasn't a dress and it wasn't addressed like what
would have been the better option it's real all of these interactions in the episode it does hopefully draw people's.
Because it's not addressed there at least hopefully drop the viewers.
Thought process of how could this have gone better if this was a real life situation which it is in general it happens all the time so what would have been the better response the better reaction,
and I think it's great that their friendship can overcome everything but it doesn't overcome.

[17:46] Unconscious bias and just.
All these belief systems that were put in place so I think it's a good starting point for conversations to happen,
yeah like big fans of Maya Erskine and Anna Konkle
as creative as funny people hilarious people so
I highly recommend watching the show if you're an adult it's it has
very adult themes even though it's addressing Middle School experience it's rated ma for a reason yes love this show hilarious,
but also as we mentioned in this episode 6 and other episodes it definitely.
The reason it's resonates and is so engaging is that it really calls up.

[18:39] Lots of reality a lot of realities a lot of truths a lot of things experiences.
For all of us that either we've forgotten on purpose or by accident I think it's just it's such a great show,
so thanks for introducing me to it I will be watching more episodes later today for sure
yeah we are burning through it I think I'm on it on season 2 now super happy that there's more to watch yeah absolutely and I definitely look forward to doing more of these Not Just Book Clubs.
We have gotten our first reviews on Apple podcasts we already have four review I know it's awesome and so our first ever reviewer.
Is for try this.
H dismiss miss us I think I think people make throwing names owner of you account if that was you we really want to send you a sticker because everyone.

[19:59] Who reviews us gets a sticker just DM has we're very excited oh so sidebar so.

[20:09] They're so cute they're like.
But 2 inches yeah so we got these stickers printed and they're like the perfect flower meihua Taiwan national flower design.
And you can like put it on everything that you can have a sticker too if you write us a review and then let us know that you did it because
we have no idea who any of these people are because we've never seen any of these usernames before.
So others let's see we have mmm blowers and Raya The Last Dragon
they were both also so kind to review us even after we had only posted our first episode so that was a vote of confidence and they both said that they want to hear more right so.
We were reviewed by.
Raya The Last Dragon that's a clue they're probably Asian and then our most recent review from.
Amped lemon said this if you are someone with a complex Heritage for example from that of Taiwan or China or any other culture than this podcast was made for you.

[21:28] It's titled a podcast made for me,
Annie and Angela discuss the things that I've always wondered about my own family's history and they do so in an engaging and thoughtful way and so that's that's really nice and at the end
it says pew pew.

[21:47] So that's a hint what does pew pew means one from Taiwan tie tacks yeah oh that's so it was so fun to read so I mean thanks for the support to,
r
friends and family and also to the new friends that we've made as we've been connecting more with a Taiwanese Community I'm really excited.

[22:11] For the journey that were starting off on and hopefully bringing more people along with us as we
progress through this yeah we've been having some really awesome conversations in our DMs with Taiwanese American entrepreneurs that we're trying to consciously support
and also it's just like really fun to talk more and hear everybody else's perspectives I love hearing about
each person's family history or things that they've been inspired to talk about or ask not just around
Taiwanese identity but also my friends other ethnicities it's helped them think more about their Heritage from their families Origins
before coming to America and yeah I am hearing about a lot more great conversations happening between friends and among family so this is so exciting to hear
yeah same here actually the some of my co-workers have also said the same thing you know they they don't have a personal connection to Taiwan but listening to the podcast.

[23:27] They've said hey it's really got me thinking a lot about my own Heritage and the conversations that I've had with my family my parents grandparents and and more of what I wanted to do.

[23:42] The next time I see my family member so I was
so delighted to hear that and it just made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
thanks so much for joining us for hearts and Taiwan the music you hear at the beginning and end of the episode is the song level up by Vienna Teng which is produced by Cason Cooley and Vienna Teng.
You can follow and DM us on Instagram or Facebook @heartsinTaiwan or contact us through our website heartsinTaiwan.com come back next week for our next episode until then,
follow your curiosity and follow your heart.

[24:22] Music.