Coming to America

[0:00] Welcome to the hearts and Taiwan podcast where we explore and celebrate our connections to Taiwan I'm Angela and I am Annie.
And every episode we unpack a piece of Taiwan and what that means to us our families and the Taiwanese diaspora as a whole.

[0:16] It's Asian and Pacific American heritage month and this week we're talking about the immigration experience.
Asians have always had a profound influence on the formation of the US to what it is today so learning more about our parents immigration stories is a really important step to understanding our families.
And part of the history of how Asians have had an impact on the US.

[0:39] Music.

[0:52] Our parents came to the u.s. in the mid-70s to get their graduate degrees because America is known as the land of opportunity and going to grad school in the u.s. really meant that you had a lot more options for yourself after you were done with school.
But it really wasn't just so easy to go to grad school just because you wanted to.
It cost a lot of money to get to the US so a lot of families had to actually raise money through their communities to even be able to get here.
So we asked our parents about their stories to get a glimpse into what was like coming into America and to actually appreciate more what their Journeys were like.
Our parents really focused on math and science professions in order to get grad school admission in the US
that really wasn't an accident there was more economic opportunity outside of course then it was very competitive to qualify for these majors.
I think our parents being good test takers would.
End up saying okay if I qualify to get into what they say is the best profession to study then I'm going to study that best profession.

[2:05] Elementary to middle school middle school to high school every step you had to get a test.

[2:11] Only the top two percent get to this high school and this is where I am even when you get into the high school you have another test if you don't pass this test.
Then you'll stay in those class who will go to literature.
When you can pass this test means you have the potential to major because if you don't ya if you don't pass this means you don't have the potential yeah so you have the potential but of course if you are.
Very inclined to write a novel or something to be a literature you can eventually choose to do that but did you always naturally like,
science and math or do I do I do for my personally I think I do maybe because I grow up with my brothers is like a math major so I think,
I just want to

[2:57] Present myself as better than him or whatever and I think that really forms kind of the pressure that we get from our parents.
Of what we should study what we should try to do well in.
In our our studies are our academic subjects I definitely.
Got that feeling from my mom like would always brag about like being top-ranked student and then also she would talk a lot about being the only woman in the nuclear engineering program
at her college so then me choosing
to go into engineering as well I was kind of already prepared for this idea of being a minority by gender in a STEM field
yeah and having a role model of my mom of just not letting being the only woman in the room stop me.
I want to major in physics first and chemistry second.
So I end up to be a nuclear engineer why not and then all this here I'm working as the only girl in the,
nuclear Engineering also even in the in the only girl the program is I do not mind because I'm sort of independent person I don't need to sit with the whole bunch of girls to feel safe.

[4:16] So my dad was at Indiana University and then my mom was at this Indianapolis University which is a
like a smaller College outside of where Indiana University was so they would go to classes during the weekdays and then they would hang out and meet up she would go over to where he was on the weekends.

[4:37] My mom she studied Plant Pathology she always likes to bring it up.
Every time there is an opportunity to talk about how well my plants are or are not doing.
She obviously hasn't given me any plant advice because I don't have any plans to speak of in my life I have succulents that I'm trying to keep a life it's a struggle yeah and what about you what was your mom's.
Path to the the school that she ended up going.
She had a very few choices as a nuclear engineering major because there weren't that many nuclear engineering programs in the US so she ended up at the University of Missouri because they granted her a full scholarship not only is it expensive to attend grad school in the US but also
when you come from a country whose whose currency is is weak compared to the American dollar then it's even more expensive so they really relied on these scholarships.

[5:37] I will very happily accept Missouri although I do not even know where Missouri is or is not a good school but at least Missouri can you believe is one of the school.

[5:47] Started the nuclear engineering program because they have the research reactor.
And that was where she met my dad speaking of like your mom being into biology and Plant Pathology he's
studying and it has always worked in microbiology and bringing that into his daily life like I remember he he met he was making his own wine at home
in his retirement and I would like never try it because I don't drink wine in general but it's it's yeah it's like that's the confidence of a microbiologist is that like whatever he
concoctsc at home in his plastic gallon jugs or whatever like he trusts that if he knows what he's doing
and that's confidence right there for you right that's interesting that you were taught you know now talking about our parents in terms of their relationships there is this
other reason that I learned as to what additionally prompted them to come to the u.s. mommy's parents.
Family that you it's very hard to for them to accept me as a my parents my family.
came from mainland China so it's very hard for us to to to be boyfriend-girlfriend and also.

[7:07] Get married in Taiwan so one of the reason is if both of us came to the US.
Then there's less resistance it's a whole other country so that's another motivation for.
For for us to plan to come to the u.s.

[7:27] But when I was hearing this story it really help to humanize my parents to me.
Because it felt like on some level this was,
kind of like this soap opera drama so just to recap if anybody missed these missed episode 1 your dad is waishengren which means his family moved from the mainland to Taiwan in 1949.
Along with the KMT government and your mom was benshengren which means that her family had already been in Taiwan for many generations and there was a lot of tension
when I mean I think there wasn't bad when
people we're just playing with each other as friends but when talking about dating and forming a potential marriage the families were not okay with that it's very Romeo and Juliet
so after they arrived in the US they got their master's degree but degrees both in Indiana but then my dad went on to get his Ph.D at The Ohio State
and yes for all of you who know this I was educated by my dad that it is The Ohio State.

[8:39] Not Ohio State so is there another Ohio State like they're competing against It's part of their brand.
I guess these days there there's less pressure to get a PhD because I think people feel like they can get
I had this decision like I was like I can get plenty of jobs with just a BS degree but back then it does seem like
were advised that they would have more opportunities and maybe as immigrants they would have more opportunities if they went all the way for a PhD so
my mom after her after she got her Master's her student visa ran out so she went back to Taiwan
for two years and it was basically like
waiting to see if she could get another scholarship to come back to the US so that already tells me that she didn't have a job lined up even after having a master's degree and so she ended up coming back to the US on a student visa to
do her PhD which she also loves to Lord over me all the time.
It's way too like have graduated from MIT with a BS and degree in engineering and her be like,
are you sure you're done? your mom's hardcore one tough cookie I did not have.

[10:01] That in my life hell I was an art major no you weren't you only Computing in Art? It's called Interdisciplinary Computing and the Arts.
So yeah there was some time spent on a computer
but it was fundamentally an art degree it's a ba and the only reason there's Computing in there is because there were two Java program classes which I hated by the way.

[10:29] And there was maybe one graphic design type of class
it's unfortunate that Java was the first language that you were exposed to because it is a tough language syntax wise I learned that the unfortunate hard way with many hours banging my head against the computer in that
stupid lab so the tally of our family.
In all there are shared parents were four siblings and among them they have three PhDs so
one pure science and ensuring one math when nuclear engineering and then the youngest sibling our parents that little sister she didn't move into the u.s. until much later in life because she didn't get those stem graduate degrees
she was the fun cool aunt.
Did marketing she's responsible for my first concert actually my first like actual concert like I was way too young what she got me into this
very obscure band called Cutting Edge
and it was a rock concert it was very loud we had to leave after like 30 minutes because I was like this is too loud and like I obviously didn't enjoy the music but it was like
way too cool for me way ahead of my time I mean that was her doing her access.

[11:51] To kind of go back to the whole idea of humanizing our parents the other thing is.
Understanding their experience living this grad Student Life.
Is also so much more humanizing to me of them because I mean they were students grad students nonetheless but by the time that from the time they arrived in the US to the time that they had me.
They specifically spent it.
Doing things like road trips people always tell you that you know enjoy your life before you have kids so if we were still you know no kids we can travel at that time.
Most deep driving you know poor student with a pool car we could like to family like.

[12:41] Four of us or I remember like six three family like three couple.
Winter vacation summer vacation is something we will drove around to different state go to different parts so that the time that way we.
Drove all the way to Maine camping there, digging in the shore for the clams.

[13:05] Something and they eat their lobster on the street side or we drove to Philadelphia New York Florida whatever the nearby or something closer.
To Cleveland Ohio and maybe stay at that time Purdue University has some of our friends.
To save the money of in over in the hotel we usually like say on the road.
If we have to take relative like some of my friends maybe the brother or sister they've in certain town that we can pass by.
We'll just
you know carrying a sleeping bag and sleep on the floor just to save the hotel cost right if we stay in a motel,
say a group of four or six right we register we were register for two or something and then the rest of them sneak in.

[14:11] Yeah I think about those years like obviously I didn't I wasn't in school during that those ages because I only got a bachelor's but those were the most fun years I was like meeting a lot of people partying and
exploring myself my you know my own identity and like
trying new experiences and everything so I can see how that's very liberating being in a new country but also it really galvanized has you wanting to stick with other people who are like you.

[14:41] First year or so the first year or two hard to use English so maybe the first semester or two.
How are you understand less than half of what the professor said,
if I put that the good thing is it's still not as bad because you know what the professor is talking about that particular subject,
so mostly you can still trying to catch up or you do more reading of studying later.
But that perform or for a small social thing.
That's even harder because we're somebody you want to talk some about something you don't know whether they are talking about the time.
So you can have been classroom your say see you know it's talk about this computer science of whatever subject and you know he's approximately what the.
Different is it about you can follow it you can go back to study but if it's a social kind of discussion it's even harder.

[15:40] So
Especially remember especially say if your school bus or campus bus if somebody just sitting next to you and start talking to you and.
You have no idea no idea it could be about anything.
Anyway so that's the kind of situation for the foreign students as especially hard.
Because they didn't really have much practice beforehand even though we have passed the TOEFL exam or whatever.

[16:15] My mom definitely lived with other
Taiwanese immigrants when she first moved into the US. Because she's a strong Christian she assimilated a lot more into wherever she lived because she would tap into the church community.
There was a kind of Chinese students Club at Missouri.
Yeah and my dad who's older than my mom is was one of the leaders or organizers of it so that's how she ended up meeting my dad
when you find this community people that knows your language and knows our culture knows the food all of that of course you're going to gravitate towards those folks.
The other thing that was really interesting is this community while there were.

[17:03] A lot of people that came from Taiwan into the US for grad school around that time Taiwan is literally a very small place.
And so the way that they grew up even if coming over here they didn't necessarily know the people here.
Eventually wherever they moved they would find that community of people and figure out what their connection from Taiwan was so built an even stronger bond that they knew the same mutual people.
Back in Taiwan I definitely can sympathize with the the feeling of isolation when you're an immigrant in a new country or.

[17:46] Even if you've been here a lot of years I always
since it when I see business owners small business owners who are like trying to see if they have a connection with you they like are you Vietnamese are you Chinese and they're not
there's trying to see like is there something that like are you connected to my home country like I am especially I think.

[18:10] Among second generation kids we all know that like if you can speak the language when you're ordering then you'll get a lot better service you need a lot better food is because I mean I don't fault them for giving better better everything too.

[18:25] Someone who can speak their language because they know that it'll be appreciated and they are you know they're showing their love for someone that is connected to their culture
I can see how it's like very galvanizing you know having that same connection to their home country we also make fun of our parents for like how how passionate they are about reunions like
we were like I don't think I'm gonna go to my 20th year reunion like those high school people are so long ago like what connection do I have them anymore
but our parents will have like
attend every reunions they could possibly attend the college their High School even their middle school reunions they are so well connected and they
they've maintained these directories and these connections
even without the internet it's just amazing how well they've been able to stay connected I now appreciate the resourcefulness
that our parents have for things like this and like you said that deep connection is so much more obvious and it makes more it makes more sense now
where all this comes from and I Gotta Give major respect
for our parents being able to do that and carry that type of stuff on all the way to now.

[19:45] And Angela I know Ray's parents they're coming to America story was different than our parents so.

[19:56] What was that all about? I didn't really recognize your how
unique our parents immigration experience was until I talked with Ray so my husband Ray his parents or his family is from Hong Kong so they speak Cantonese and
if their immigrant experience is more along the lines of like what you think of an American immigrant experience is where they came with very little money in their pockets.

[20:28] And really had the blue collar working experience of like having to literally earn an income right away in order to survive.
It's I think that's the more common experience of immigrants when you think of Chinese immigrants they.
You think of Chinatown in the urban centers like.
The San Francisco Chinatown New York Chinatown they mainly speak Cantonese there because when they immigrated
they had no money they weren't coming on student visas and so they literally had to find like any job they could
cooking food washing dishes janitorial whatever in order to earn their first dollars in this country and so the easiest place to do that was to move to a high-density area where everybody around you is the same.
And that's why China towns were you know really more of.
Where they had realistic opportunities and so that's that's why you see a lot more cantonese-speaking people coming from major cities and and those Chinatown neighborhoods.

[21:42] The Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965 was really critical in
kick-starting this wave of immigrants such as our parents
coming to the u.s. so it really opened up this opportunity for people across the world to come to the u.s. so specifically in our parents areas in
Taiwan and other parts of China it also allowed for that but really it
part of this piece of this act included Provisions around a preference for.
The more highly skilled as a result of that you see this huge rise after 1965 of,
workers who have a certain skill set like I said the white collar type of workers the model minority myth hmm definitely it help to put a vocabulary
to what was happening.
Yeah Asian Americans have become a lot more aware lately of how damaging the model minority myth is
and I think it's important to examine how specifically immigrants from Taiwan were used to reinforce this meth.
There was just a CNN article actually published this month that shows average income among each segment of asian-americans and guess what.

[23:07] Indian Americans are number one and Taiwanese Americans are number two
so not just that but Taiwanese Americans have the highest percentage of adults over the age of 25 holding at least a bachelor's degree among all the Asian American groups.
So I'd have to say Taiwanese Americans are perceived as one of the most model of model minorities.
And while we're proud of how highly accomplished Taiwanese Americans are we have to acknowledge that it's not an indication of us working any harder than other groups.
Actually because immigration policy filtered
who from our country was allowed in and those who arrive to the US by plane with student visas in hand had a great deal more privileged than other Asian immigrants.

[23:55] So now we can see in history how immigration law can turn on and off like a faucet the number and the profile of ethnic representation here in America.
It makes our participation like the attention that we pay to the process of passing immigration laws so much more important.
Because that's going to shape the Next Generation and it's going to shape what our country looks like in the future.

[24:27] We recognize that our parents experiences which was coming to the u.s. for grad school.
Is not indicative of every immigrant from ages experiences there are those who came as refugees there are others who came for grad school and all sorts of reasons in between
and so those are all end up with very different experiences coming to the u.s. and then after they've gotten to the US so
I want to know if this resonates or with you our listeners or if your family had a really different experience and like the things that were saying don't
gel or don't support these,
hypotheses that we're forming. You know this being heritage month I think it's a really good time if you want to play along is if you ask your parents or grandparents about their immigration story
if you're a first gen you know consider recording your immigration story so that others can learn from your experiences.

[25:31] In our show notes will link to a list of conversation prompts that are specifically for families from Taiwan but you can use the prompts for any immigrant and these questions are by our friend Ellie Yang Camp and she has an account
which is fantastic just for understanding the Asian American experience and racial and identity politics
and if you want to share your story with others on the same Journey,
post with a #HeartsInTaiwan to help the Hearts in Taiwan community find your story and see how it Compares with our story and their stories and you'll be able to.
Influence us in like how how we understand all of the immigrants from Chinese racial dissent in forming this picture of like what is Chinese and Taiwanese America look like today.

[26:23] And now for our segment #notsponsored
This podcast is our passion project we both have other sources of income so we've decided to make this podcast ad-free instead we want to close each Episode by sharing with you some awesome stuff that we love so much we promote it even though they don't pay us.
Today it's TaiwaneseAmerican.org.

[26:46] So TaiwaneseAmerican.org is a website and a non-profit or whose mission is to connect and inform the people and projects of the Taiwanese American community.
From arts and entertainment to food and travel to social and political issues it's a really great resource so check it out.
This site has been around for decades but the current generation of it is headed by the editor-in-chief Leona Chen this site has been so educational for me
and recently I've heard Leona talk and I am just blown away at how articulate she is how like
knowledgeable she is about the whole situation of why the Taiwanese American identity is important and the advocacy that needs to be done to
get the Taiwanese American community recognized.

[27:40] The music you hear at the beginning of the episode is the song level up by Vienna Teng which is produced by Cason Cooley and Vienna Teng.

[27:48] Stick around for a special feature at the end of this episode of some very relevant lyrics from the song Show Yourself by Alex Wong played with permission from the artist.

[28:00] Thanks so much for joining us for Hearts in Taiwan check the description for key links that we've referred to throughout this episode.
You can follow & DM us on Instagram or Facebook @heartsintaiwan or contact us through our website HeartsInTaiwan.com.
Let us know what you want to hear more about in a future episode until then follow your curiosity and follow your heart.

[28:24] Music.